From the moment he arrived in Wales, Scott Johnson knew it was the country for him.
Rugby has taken him around the world over the past 40 years with spells in his native Australia, France, USA, Scotland and Canada as player and coach.
But it was his stint working with the Wales national team that stands out as his favourite time in the game.
He made a big impression with his larger-than-life, flamboyant personality, as well as the part he played in a Welsh revival which culminated in the 2005 Grand Slam, while there was also a period as head coach after the headline-grabbing departure of Mike Ruddock.
It’s the 20th anniversary of the end of that chapter in his career, but the memories remain both vivid and very fond.
When I caught up with him at his home in a rural area of the Gold Coast of Queensland, an hour south of Brisbane, he repeatedly returned to the subject of Wales and just why he felt – and still feels – such an affinity for the country.
He also revealed the inside story behind last year’s speculation linking him with the WRU director of rugby job.
Born in 1962, Johnson grew up in Parramatta, in western Sydney, with his parents and three sisters.
“I come from very much a working class background,” he explains.
“It’s really a blue collar story. My dad, Geoff, worked in a rubber plant.
“He had a big influence on me because he coached all the sport in the area. He kept us off the street largely. In those days, it was a rough area.
“He did a lot for social welfare with his coaching, keeping people distracted from other temptations.”
Initially starting out playing rugby league, Johnson switched to Union and went on to line up at fly-half or centre for the NSW Waratahs, as well as having a spell with French club Toulon.
But tragedy struck when his wife Lesley passed away from acute leukaemia, aged just 26.
So, in his mid-twenties, he found himself widowed and a single parent of two children under three.
“I lost my wife and I lost my father in succession. I lost my support network.
“I was being encouraged to get into coaching, but I didn’t feel I could do it as a single dad with two young kids.
“But people kept asking me. They believed in me and that’s how it started.”
So Johnson – a schoolteacher by profession – took up a post with Sydney club Penrith, which meant a regular three hour round trip from his home in Terrigal.
He progressed to an assistant’s job with the Waratahs and also helped Australia A claim a famous victory over Graham Henry’s British & Irish Lions in the summer of 2001.
Later that year, Wales boss Henry came knocking, handing him the role of skills coach and so began a life-changing experience.
“It opened my eyes,” he says.
“Rugby from the white collar community never really suited me. I didn’t know what a private school was or anything like that. That to me was alien when I was growing up.
“But, when I went to Wales, I felt it was something I fitted into. I understood it. I realised this is the land’s sport.
“It was working class people really enjoying the game. It was enlightening and enthralling to me and I loved every minute of it.
“Wales was the first place I felt a real affinity to rugby union culture.”
When Henry quit in February 2002, Johnson found himself working alongside newly promoted head coach Steve Hansen and Kiwi fitness guru Andrew Hore.
It was to be a challenging period.
“The first year, we did things wrong,” he admits.
“At the time, Australia and New Zealand were far and away the most dominant sides in the world.
“I think there was an inclination to pretend we were coaching one of those two teams and that’s where I felt we got it wrong.
“We needed to realise we weren’t coaching them, we were coaching Wales. You’ve got to work within the parameters you have got in front of you.
“We had to make adjustments, both culturally and looking at the group that we had.
“We weren’t going to run over the top of people. We didn’t have those big explosive players that could do that. We didn’t have that type of athlete.
“But what we did have was very naturally skilful ones.
“We had to let them showcase what they had by playing a style of rugby which they were best equipped for.
“Part of that was getting fitter because this was going to be a high tempo game, with high ball in play. That’s where Andrew Hore came in.
“Steve also saw that success lay in the generation underneath, so we had to withstand a bit of pain.”
There were certainly some painful times along the way as Wales suffered a then-record ten successive Test defeats.
As such, the message to Hansen ahead of the World Cup warm-up game against Scotland in August 2003 was very clear – win or you are out of the door.
But, despite this threat, he refused to change his experimental team selection.
“I always believe you judge people in the dark times and we went through some dark times, but Steve was resolute and he was very brave,” says Johnson.
“He felt we were on the right path. He said we are sticking to the plan, we are going to see it out.
“That’s when he went up in my estimation ten fold. He put himself out there for what he believed was in the best interests of the nation, which I always admired.”
Victory over Scotland meant Hansen kept his job and, during the World Cup that followed in Australia, the plan started to come together amid thrilling performances in defeat against New Zealand and England.
“Once we got over the banana skin of a potential loss to Italy, or something like that, we got confidence,” said Johnson.
“We showed everyone what we could do and the type of rugby we were intending to play.
“But while the improvements were admirable, I don’t think we were a genuine force to win it. It was still too early for that team.”
Moving into 2004, Johnson became even more of a recognisable figure, with his long locks and the way he prowled the touchline in his shorts during games at the Millennium Stadium, geeing up the crowd.
“When I was sitting up in the box with Steve, we would say the same things at the same time,” he explains.
“I felt one of us needed to get a different perspective.
“So he said ‘How do you suggest we do it?’
“I said ‘Mate, we need someone down on the ground’.
“So he said ‘All right, let’s do it’.
“I was the kicking coach anyway, so it was legitimate for me to be down there to carry the tee on.
“We had that young team and I found they were pretty quiet by nature. I felt they needed support, so let’s give them some. I wanted the players to know there were other people in the fight with them.
“So I was running up and down the sideline like a goose, getting in the fight.
“If I went out and had a beer with Welsh people in a pub, I loved their passion for it. They cared, so let’s show the players that they care.
“I became on a first name basis with people in the crowd!
“I would be down the sideline and fans would say ‘Gee us up, Johnno’. So, it was let’s go!
“You are a kid from Parramatta and you have got people from Wales telling you to gee them up. You are thinking what a weird and wonderful world we live in.”
He added: “There were a couple of times where I finished up picking fights with the opposition.
“Ali Williams and I had a massive go through the New Zealand game that year. Every time I went on with the tee, I gave him lip and he was giving me lip back. We were into it. I had him biting.
“To be fair, after the game he came and gave me his shorts, his socks and all that.”
Following a 2004 Six Nations campaign which brought victories over Scotland and Italy, Hansen returned to New Zealand where he would be reunited with Henry at the helm of the All Blacks.
Mike Ruddock’s appointment and what happened next…
That saw Johnson now working with new Wales head coach Mike Ruddock.
“The partnership was different and I saw my role slightly differently,” he recalls.
“I was asked by the governing body to do something with Mike, to transition him in.
“It was his first hit out as an international coach, which has its own challenges. I wanted to make sure the baton was passed well.”
After a victory over Argentina in Buenos Aires in the summer, along came the autumn and Johnson’s favourite game during his time in the job, against Henry and Hansen’s All Blacks in Cardiff.
It was a week where he famously stole the headlines with his pre-match comment about New Zealand being “a poxy little island in the Pacific”, doubling down with an “apology” where he said it was actually two islands!
“Sometimes you have got to think of a way to take pressure off people and put it on to somebody else,” he explains.
“I always saw New Zealand as adversaries, so I knew what I could tap into. It was a big game for the Welsh players. Graham and Steve were back there with the All Blacks.
“It was probably 70 per cent me getting the first punch in because I felt they would at some stage, but secondly it was me taking the heat off others.”
Looking back, does he regret what he said?
“No, not in the slightest!” he replies.
“I’d do it again now. It’s a bit me-ish and I think it added to the week, didn’t it?
“I’ll tell you the funniest story about that, which got me.
“The following year, I got a call from Clive Woodward asking me if I would come and join the Lions in New Zealand.
“So I flew over and went to get my passport checked through customs. They looked at me and then they walked away and I could see them in the distance talking and looking at my passport.
“I was thinking ‘Don’t tell me it’s out of date?’
“Anyway, this lady comes back with a really big Maori guy and she said ‘We’ll allow you into our poxy little island!’
“I thought ‘Oh well, at least they’ve got a sense of humour’.
As for the actual match against the All Blacks in November 2004, well that proved to be a titanic affair with Wales threatening to pull off a historic victory before ultimately going down 26-25.
“That was my favourite game, without doubt,” says Johnson.
“I still say that’s one of the best Test matches I’ve ever seen. It was enthralling with the to-and-fro and the ebbing.
“It was a wonderful game. Sometimes games fly by very quickly and you don’t get to view them as a spectacle because you are too immersed in it, but that one was an exception. It was just a really good game of footie.
“It was two very skilful, combative and genuinely competitive sides. It was such a great game.
“On the final whistle, three or four of the All Blacks, a handful of their superstars, hit the ground. They were exhausted, gone. They just laid on the ground. I thought to myself ‘You don’t see that much’.
“That was where I saw the progress of that Welsh team. I felt we were one, two or three in the world now. We are not a million miles off this.”
His viewpoint was confirmed when Wales went on to complete the Six Nations clean-sweep in 2005, recording a first Grand Slam since 1978.
Johnson looks back on the 24-18 victory over France in Paris in round three as the pivotal moment.
“That game was out of reach really. They looked a class above us in the first 30 minutes.
“But then Nugget (Martyn Williams) turned it around and the confidence grew.
“I remember at the end of the game, France had a scrum in our 22 and they were still within the points to win it. That showed grit to hold out there.
“That’s when I knew we would win the Championship, after that game. We had beaten a big team over there.
“The players had an aura about them after that. They had confidence. You could see the growth in them.”
The Slam was completed with a 32-20 victory over Ireland on a never-to-be-forgotten March day in Cardiff.
“The thing that always sticks with me about that game was we were leading by 12 points with about ten minutes to go and the crowd was really quiet,” says Johnson.
“I couldn’t work it out. I was thinking ‘F***, what are you doing?’
“But because I had been in the country a while by then, I sort of sensed why.
“It was a cultural thing. It felt like they were thinking ‘We could still lose this’.
“But then they started singing. I looked up at the clock and there was only three minutes to go.
“They went through this little lull of ‘We could still lose it’ to ‘We can’t lose it’.
“I think that encapsulated the culture of the place. It sort of typified the country for me. The nervousness, they weren’t used to winning, all that sort of stuff.
“There was that negativity or pessimism of ‘Oh they are going to f*** this up’ for three or four minutes.
“And then that was superseded by ‘We’ve won, we are going to go berserk’.
“It was great that people who had been through a hell of a lot in their sport, in their culture, got to share in that.
“I could have sat there all day, that last bit, with all the singing.
“I was exhausted by the end. You don’t see me in photos after the game. I went back to the hotel and had a beer with the people at the Vale. It was all about the players then. Go and enjoy.
“You had these guys who had been battered, bruised and lacking in confidence at the start. To see where they got to and the men they became, it was pretty special to witness that growth. I see that as a privilege.”
Johnson picks out four members of that Welsh team for particular mention, starting with skipper Gareth ‘Alfie’ Thomas.
“I always felt the most naturally gifted player I saw in Wales was Alfie.
“I remember meeting him for a coffee in Bridgend and telling him ‘I see what you’ve got. Now this team needs to see it’.
“It was a question of him fulfilling his potential and giving the others a great athlete to chase.
“He is the best defensive full-back I have ever seen. He found a way to make tackles against very elusive guys and that’s not an easy skill. He was exceptional.
“Then you’ve got Stephen Jones who was the greatest advertisement for making the most of the talent you have.
“I just loved the fact it showed there was a place for dedication. It bears testimony to human endeavour.
“With Alfie, there was genetics. With Stephen, there wasn’t genetics, but he made the most of everything he had. I just admired him so much.
“Then there’s Martyn Williams, who had a second wind in his career. His natural skills with the ball were incredible, but he needed to add to his game and, after the 2003 World Cup, he made great strides athletically and became a different player to a different level.
“Then, in a funny sort of way, I am full of admiration for the Aussie that played in that team, Brent Cockbain, for the contribution he made.
“There were little things like when the kickers would kick at training, he would go behind the posts and catch every one of them. He would say ‘I’ve never been the most skillful, this is the way I practice all my catching’ and he became a really good lineout forward.
“That probably sums that team up, where people made the most of what they were. Within those people, there are stories that are good for humans.”
However, less than a year on from the Grand Slam triumph, there was to be a very different mood, with Ruddock stepping down midway through the 2006 Six Nations.
There was talk of player power and some pointed the finger at Johnson. So how does he look back on that time?
“The thing that gets under my skin is I never wanted anything but success for that Welsh team and for Mike,” he says.
“It was important to me. Wales was such a big part of my life. It had done a lot for me as a person.
“Mike is a really good man. I brought him to Australia and took him and his family around for three weeks, putting them up at a friend’s house on the coast. I liked Mike as a man.
“I can look everyone in the eye and say I was doing everything I possibly could to make him and the team successful.
“I wanted Mike to have success because he was a really decent man and he got to have success. If I helped in any way, that was great.”
He continued: “A lot of people say things that are blatantly not true. They just don’t know.
“I think there was this suggestion that I was undermining Mike or something, which just couldn’t have been further from the truth. It’s disappointing that it was viewed that way. I don’t think I worked as hard in my life. All I wanted was success.
“The comments were water off a duck’s back to me because people don’t know me and they don’t know my values.
“The superficial ones where people think they know or they’ve heard a rumour or something like that just beggars belief. Ill informed comments like that just make me laugh.
“I know what’s right and the people that know me know my moral compass.
“When Mike left, it came as much of a shock to me as anybody, definitely. No-one wanted that to happen. It was a difficult period.
“Mike is a very good man and I enjoyed his company. It was just sad that it ended that way. But things happen in life.”
After seeing out the remainder of the 2006 Six Nations as caretaker head coach, Johnson then had spells with the Wallabies and the USA Eagles, before returning to Wales to become director of coaching at the Ospreys in 2009, remaining at the helm for three years.
“It was my first big job overseeing everything. It was total immersion,” he said.
“I really enjoyed it. They had a lot of talented young kids coming through and that excited me. We moved to a new stadium and we were winning things.
“There were blokes I got into coaching like Steve Tandy and Filo Tiatia. I was part of their development and that’s a big part of what I do as an ex-teacher.”
Seven years with Scotland followed and then three more with Australia, while there has also been consulting work with Canada.
The recent phone call from WRU…
Then, last year, he was linked with the vacant role of WRU director of rugby, which was ultimately filled by Dave Reddin.
“The Union reached out to me and asked for my advice on what the role should look like as I had done the job in both Scotland and Australia,” he reveals.
“I tried to advise them as fairly as I could. I had my opinions about what they should do, some of which they took on board, some they didn’t, which is fine, that’s their right.
“I never applied for the job. They asked me whether I would be interested in doing it, but that was really in the late end of the process and I think they might have had someone in mind by then, so I left it at that.
“If they had turned around at the time and said ‘Will you come and help us for 15 months?’, I probably would have done it because I want the place to be good.”
That’s a theme which cropped up regularly during my long chat with the 63-year-old Johnson, who met his wife Judy – who he has been married to since 2007 – when he was living in Wales.
“I am always proud to say of my time in Wales that I have nothing but good things to say about it,” he declares.
“I loved my time there and I love the Welsh. Some of my closest friends are Welsh. I want them to have success because the place means a lot to me.
“The first time with Wales is the time I look back on most fondly. It showed me that people like me in rugby fit in. They were my type of people that played rugby. That opened up a different world to me.”
As for the future, he says: “There is one more big job in me, one big challenge. I’ve just got to find out what’s right for my family.”
So, would he ever return to Welsh rugby?
“Too right I would! It would be a good bookend of life, to start and finish.
“I just want Welsh rugby to be successful. You would like to see them do good.”